You manage to warn about the problems of people becoming tribal about this without descending into the typical “oh noes this is too dangerous to talk about” moralizing one normally sees, since you quite correctly notice that as with any question where an individual is confident he is right and society is probably wrong, one must be on the lookout to prevent a sort of pride in having something like superior or hidden knowledge developing into an entire identity that you wear on your sleeve.
I also like you have taken some effort to explain and emphasise how approaching this from the wrong direction can be hurtful and rude. This isn’t so much original content about the theory of rationality it is however I think, a good example of applied rationality. Which probably needs to be showcased more. And no I’m not talking about guides to learn how to knit or swim or draw (though I don’t mind those either). I think several people have complained that we have let the politics is the mindkiller taboo strife all interesting discussion on the main section. Anyone here recall the old wild Overcoming Bias days? OB is still sort of that place, just that now its now only Robin Hanson’s voice. A very interesting voice and intellectually brave one, but man talking about status all the time is boring. More posts to discussing a wide variety of real world issues, even ones where there are people who will break down, might be just what we need here. Why let contrarian blogs have all the fun?
I also think it does a good job of showcasing an example of things that society as a whole need find a way to rationally discuss or evaluate but individuals don’t really benefit that much from knowing (I’m referring to the hereditarian hypothesis for the IQ gap, crime stats are probably good to know if you live in a high crime envrionment).
Because I know this is an abiding debate here on LessWrong.
You are right on this, but I’m sure there are plenty of LWers who probably fully miss this. The discussion is rather low key and only comes up when relevant. Like when someone mentions education gaps, economic development strategies or discussions of bias in academia. Human biodiversity theories are also often mentioned in “unspoked dark ideas that are probably true” threads like theseones.
It routinely also comes up as the main “unspoked dangerous idea” like in these threads.
By the way, since my foray into the cluster of those dangerous and/or heretical ideas I no longer perceive the mere theory that a person’s and culture’s characteristics are mostly enslaved to genes as the main bit of “forbidden knowledge” out there. Yes, it’s highly distressing, yes, it could be—and often has been—abused, but it can also be handled in an universally satisfying way by a sufficiently wise thinker.
Compared to other unseen/mind-killing threats, mere racism is rather weak as the worst it has historically caused was genocide and widespread oppression compared to, say, a hypothetical permanent “corruption” and degradation of humanity, as seen in e.g. 1984 or other dystopian SF works. No, don’t ask me what those (corruption and degradation) could result from; I don’t even want to guess, not yet.
Obscurantism, and reference to authors who would have spit on you in real life, gives you thumbs up.
You are a pathetic intellectual coward, snidely denouncing those who go against the cultural stream, while anonymously quoting authors who had the courage to criticize the status quo.
And I was JUST about to say that I’ve read the transcript of your video and found it mostly factually solid (although making some puzzling assumptions and generalizations) and refreshingly polite! Calm down, good sir. I’m not offended by this discussion and neither should you be.
I certainly never had “contempt” for you; the absolute worst thought I allowed myself was: “Shame that this charismatic man was led somewhat astray by contrarianism and unbridled resentment of modernity.”
P.S. I’m quite sure that no LW commenters would be spat on by Orwell, were they so fortunate as to meet him.
So you write a two paragraph essay talking about how idiotic I am, and then you watch the video? Spare me. You attack me repeatedly on deep comment threads, where few men tread, while openly strawmanning me on the first post, where all see.
You are the perfect illustraion of intellectual dishonesty—and the perfect avatar for the second least likely cult to form.
Prove me wrong; upvote the video that you supposedly don’t hate. Or downvote it, and maintain your position of local power.
I already upvoted your post here when I saw it dipping below zero (check my likes, made them public). If you want it that much, I’ll upvote it on youtube, too. Although I really don’t like the tone and direction of comments over there; they’d rather talk about political battles than the real-world policy effects on real people.
Or downvote it, and maintain your position of local power.
The battles over on my channel—if you ignore the white nationalists—are largely about survival of civilization, followed secondarily by the survival of the political state.
But overtop of those the debate is mainly whether we should have a state. I’m not even herding cats—I’m just talking to them.
(BTW, you probably look cooler with a shiny bald skull than in a hat. No, seriously, I’m not pulling your leg! At the very least it grabs attention and makes you look like someone from WH40k.)
To be perfectly frank, I’m not so much a rationalist, as I am informed by rationalists.
I’m an Engineer who likes to read Physics journals.
One of EY articles I meant to directly reference, but forgot, was “keep your identity small”—don’t subscribe to big movements, or label yourself as an XYZ—just be your own person. Obviously my closing remakrs were formed upon this, but I forgot to put in the quote.
Live performance is still an art I’m practicing. On the one hand I wish I had better rigour, on the other I need to be more charismatic.
One of EY articles I meant to directly reference, but forgot, was “keep your identity small”—don’t subscribe to big movements, or label yourself as an XYZ—just be your own person. Obviously my closing remakrs were formed upon this, but I forgot to put in the quote.
Yes the influence there was pretty obvious and I think you did a good job of applying it.
A good video on a usually mind-killing subject.
You manage to warn about the problems of people becoming tribal about this without descending into the typical “oh noes this is too dangerous to talk about” moralizing one normally sees, since you quite correctly notice that as with any question where an individual is confident he is right and society is probably wrong, one must be on the lookout to prevent a sort of pride in having something like superior or hidden knowledge developing into an entire identity that you wear on your sleeve.
I also like you have taken some effort to explain and emphasise how approaching this from the wrong direction can be hurtful and rude. This isn’t so much original content about the theory of rationality it is however I think, a good example of applied rationality. Which probably needs to be showcased more. And no I’m not talking about guides to learn how to knit or swim or draw (though I don’t mind those either). I think several people have complained that we have let the politics is the mindkiller taboo strife all interesting discussion on the main section. Anyone here recall the old wild Overcoming Bias days? OB is still sort of that place, just that now its now only Robin Hanson’s voice. A very interesting voice and intellectually brave one, but man talking about status all the time is boring. More posts to discussing a wide variety of real world issues, even ones where there are people who will break down, might be just what we need here. Why let contrarian blogs have all the fun?
I also think it does a good job of showcasing an example of things that society as a whole need find a way to rationally discuss or evaluate but individuals don’t really benefit that much from knowing (I’m referring to the hereditarian hypothesis for the IQ gap, crime stats are probably good to know if you live in a high crime envrionment).
You are right on this, but I’m sure there are plenty of LWers who probably fully miss this. The discussion is rather low key and only comes up when relevant. Like when someone mentions education gaps, economic development strategies or discussions of bias in academia. Human biodiversity theories are also often mentioned in “unspoked dark ideas that are probably true” threads like these ones.
By the way, since my foray into the cluster of those dangerous and/or heretical ideas I no longer perceive the mere theory that a person’s and culture’s characteristics are mostly enslaved to genes as the main bit of “forbidden knowledge” out there. Yes, it’s highly distressing, yes, it could be—and often has been—abused, but it can also be handled in an universally satisfying way by a sufficiently wise thinker.
Compared to other unseen/mind-killing threats, mere racism is rather weak as the worst it has historically caused was genocide and widespread oppression compared to, say, a hypothetical permanent “corruption” and degradation of humanity, as seen in e.g. 1984 or other dystopian SF works. No, don’t ask me what those (corruption and degradation) could result from; I don’t even want to guess, not yet.
Obscurantism, and reference to authors who would have spit on you in real life, gives you thumbs up.
You are a pathetic intellectual coward, snidely denouncing those who go against the cultural stream, while anonymously quoting authors who had the courage to criticize the status quo.
Your contempt for me gives me an erection.
:blink:
And I was JUST about to say that I’ve read the transcript of your video and found it mostly factually solid (although making some puzzling assumptions and generalizations) and refreshingly polite! Calm down, good sir. I’m not offended by this discussion and neither should you be.
I certainly never had “contempt” for you; the absolute worst thought I allowed myself was: “Shame that this charismatic man was led somewhat astray by contrarianism and unbridled resentment of modernity.”
P.S. I’m quite sure that no LW commenters would be spat on by Orwell, were they so fortunate as to meet him.
What, defend me? Well that’d be a first.
So you write a two paragraph essay talking about how idiotic I am, and then you watch the video? Spare me. You attack me repeatedly on deep comment threads, where few men tread, while openly strawmanning me on the first post, where all see.
You are the perfect illustraion of intellectual dishonesty—and the perfect avatar for the second least likely cult to form.
Prove me wrong; upvote the video that you supposedly don’t hate. Or downvote it, and maintain your position of local power.
I already upvoted your post here when I saw it dipping below zero (check my likes, made them public). If you want it that much, I’ll upvote it on youtube, too. Although I really don’t like the tone and direction of comments over there; they’d rather talk about political battles than the real-world policy effects on real people.
WHAT local power?
Perhaps I’ve misjudged you.
The battles over on my channel—if you ignore the white nationalists—are largely about survival of civilization, followed secondarily by the survival of the political state.
But overtop of those the debate is mainly whether we should have a state. I’m not even herding cats—I’m just talking to them.
(BTW, you probably look cooler with a shiny bald skull than in a hat. No, seriously, I’m not pulling your leg! At the very least it grabs attention and makes you look like someone from WH40k.)
Bald head plus saying uncomfortable things about race is probably a bad move.
That was my first impression as well, but later I changed my mind.
I needed a change of scene. Maybe I’ll take my hat off every so often, I can use that to emphasize a point, right?
Oh sure. The thing is, I’ve only ever watched 3 or so of your videos, and in this one you were suddenly wearing one.
Well, I’m one of the last goddamned cowboys in cowtown. Why shouldn’t I wear it? The motorcycle helmet isn’t photogenic.
Right, right, I’m fine with your hat! (and your other clothing, and your lineage, etc) Just sharing my relative impressions, that’s all!
I think the leather jacket makes me look fat.
I’m not your spouse, dude.
You need to pick a side. Shit disturbing is only successful for so long.
You need to ease up.
To be perfectly frank, I’m not so much a rationalist, as I am informed by rationalists.
I’m an Engineer who likes to read Physics journals.
One of EY articles I meant to directly reference, but forgot, was “keep your identity small”—don’t subscribe to big movements, or label yourself as an XYZ—just be your own person. Obviously my closing remakrs were formed upon this, but I forgot to put in the quote.
Live performance is still an art I’m practicing. On the one hand I wish I had better rigour, on the other I need to be more charismatic.
It’s Paul Graham actually.
An easy mistake to make since there where plenty of posts on this and related subjects, like this one by Kaj.
You are the soul of charity, GLaDOS.
Yes the influence there was pretty obvious and I think you did a good job of applying it.